2/15/2009

The Opportunity of Crisis

It is no secret that this so-called stimulus bill, which was just voted in without ever being read, is just a grab bag of big cash for liberal proposals that have long been under dust in a file cabinet somewhere. The question is how is it that our elected officials would be so callous and uncaring as to saddle this gargantuan debt on our children and their children. People are indeed hurting right now. People are losing their jobs and America is losing good businesses. Every time Obama does anything noteworthy the market responds to his socialist ideas by tanking in a big way. Our government grows larger and larger by the day. Seriously.....every single day. The stimulus bill itself contains some 200 NEW federal programs. These are suppose to be "temporary" but history teaches us different about NEW government programs.

I, myself, was told this week that the district I work for will be freezing our pay and cutting 10 days off of my contract next year. And I'm very fortunate right now to have some sort of security in my job. So how is it that the democrats dare cram unneeded spending and pork down our throats as we barely tread water? For a bill said to be aimed at spending in hope to stimulate our economy why is it that far less than 200 billion of the 789 billion will even be spent in the next YEAR? And some of the money won't even be spent until 2019!!! The answer to this is the fact that it is exactly the intention of Obama and of his crony Rahm Emanuel to use this unsettling time to force this piece of smoking dung legislation down the throats of starving America. To them our bad fortune is their "opportunity of crisis."

36 comments:

Brooke said...

You said it all, PF.

What a huge crap sandwich we're all being forced to take a bite of.

Yehudi said...

I can't wait for Ducky to stop by and tell you how fortunate we are to be sitting at the table being fed crap sandwiches. Sorry to hear about your contract cut and pay freeze.

M.A. said...

Excellent post.

I heard out here in California, one school district was planning to sit on the money so they could use it as campaign funds for school bonds during the next election.

Ducky's here said...

It is no secret that this so-called stimulus bill, which was just voted in without ever being read, is just a grab bag of big cash for liberal proposals that have long been under dust in a file cabinet somewhere.

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It hasn't been read but it's no secret.

The right wing makes my head ache.

Ducky's here said...

I, myself, was told this week that the district I work for will be freezing our pay and cutting 10 days off of my contract next year.

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Union? Far right?

I'm confused. You're riding this out better than most yet you begrudge the stimulus. You'd rather let "the free market" (LMAO) work out of this, which it is unlikely to do.
Sorry if I sense hypocrisy here.

Ducky's here said...

Don't worry Yehudi, there's still billions in the budget for Israeli welfare checks. They have no qualms about taking stimulus money.

The Merry Widow said...

ducky, you are enjoying watching people suffer...and you are happy that it is those that you despise...how petty.
Shows that you are a grubby little soul...

tmw

Ducky's here said...

No mw, I am not enjoying it all all.

What disturbs me is the irresponsible right wanting to repeat schemes that caused this collapse and not being willing to debate a resolution.

If all you can do is yell tax cuts then you just don't have a good proposal to end this.

... and this is a nasty situation so you are going to have to expect that a resolution will be large. And you have to answer why you would have people potentially made more miserable with the idea of "letting the market correct itself".
The market has fallen and it can't get up. It can't correct itself.

No, it isn't me who wants to extend the misery longer than necessary. I may be wrong about how to go about this but repeating what got us here seems an even less appetizing idea.

Papa Frank said...

You are wrong about what got us here. THAT'S the problem. We did not get here by cutting taxes. We got here by Bubba Clinton FORCING banks to take bad loans backed by the government. Then private banks were FORCED to lax standards in order to be competitive with the government backed bad loans. Couple that with what a DEMOCRAT congress did to fuel prices while refusing to drill which was against the will of 75% of Americans. When the Dems took over in 2006 the average price of gasoline was $2.18. In less than 2 years they almost doubled it. And now just as soon as gas has come down they want to put a large tax on it to pay tribute money to the Goracle. This stimulus does NOTHING to stimulate and everything to put a further debt burden on the shoulders of our children.

Ducky's here said...

I'm sorry Papa, but you need to get a clue.

If every single mortgage that was issued as a result of the CRA had defaulted, that figure would have been trivial.

You actually believe that the dollar volume of the failed mortgages rather then the 40-1 leveraging of the securities under the asinine assumption that housing values could continue to rise was the cause of this.

There were plenty of reserves to cover defaults of the 30 year fixed mortgages that occurred. Also minority neighborhoods have a marginally SUPERIOR performance rate than the range of standard mortgages in general.

Banks were forced into lax standards? Alan Greenspan as Fed chairman had the ability to regulate loans and DID NOT. Did you miss the part where he later admitted that HE WAS WRONG and the laiseez0faire heaven didn't turn out as he expected?

Just what did the Democratic congress do to fuel prices? By 2006 the bubble was starting to deflate? What the hell are you talking about?

Ducky's here said...

When the Dems took over in 2006 the average price of gasoline was $2.18. In less than 2 years they almost doubled it.

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How?

Gas is a $1.89 in my neighborhood and as I understand it Missouri has the cheapest gas in the nation?

Now why not explain what policy caused gas to double.

Myself, I think a LOGICAL (sorry to use a powerful weapon against emotional right wingers) explanation involves speculation, peak supply and the recession but I await your explanation.

Papa Frank said...

"If every single mortgage that was issued as a result of the CRA had defaulted, that figure would have been trivial."

Duh?! The point is what this program forced other banks to do in order to be competitive. Not just the loans given as a result of the CRA. Yes the market was inflated and yes the market needed to adjust but it was inflated more so by the democrats who were taking money hand over fist from people like Freddie and Fannie. The democrats, and republicans, were looking the other way in order to feed their campaigns.

Papa Frank said...

In the middle of 2008 the gas prices were over $4.00 duckling.

Papa Frank said...

OK duckling, let's try this again. Why did the democrats pass this big dung bill through without ever reading it? Why does the lion share of the money from it not get spent for more than a year if it is so important to pass right now in order to stimulate our economy? Try speaking to the point of a post for once. Rahm Emanuel and Obama are simply using this economic crisis to force a dung heap onto the heads of Americans. Pure and simple.

Ducky's here said...

I have spoken to the point of the post.

The money will be spent over time because it can be better spent as needed and consideration given to the benefits of the project.

Now, since confidence is a critical element in a market economy, just the fact that the bill has been past will generate stability which is critical to restoring growth.

Note that Geithner's plan to stabilize the housing market is coming either tomorrow or Wednesday and that is going to have to be encouraging or we have a real set back. The housing market MUST find a bottom soon or there are only limited options.


Meanwhile, I have to assume you still think tax cuts will exclusively resolve the matter. I have asked why this isn't just a shift of private debt to the government and how that benefits you over time. My premise is that the use of the cut cannot be predicted, it might go to consumption rather than investment and you are still faced with debt service in the future.

So let me know.

Meanwhile, I have read your replies carefully and clearly have reason to believe that as far as your analysis of the housing collapse you aren't even wrong. Although I would like to know how activity that relied on perpetual increases in housing values could ever succeed since the perpetual steady increase of housing has never occurred at the level we saw let alone been sustained.

Remember, it was the drop in price that killed the derivatives market, which in turn killed the investment bankers. It wasn't the default rate.

Let me know when you have something.

Ducky's here said...

In the middle of 2008 the gas prices were over $4.00 duckling.

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Seems so long ago. So what Dem policy pushed them that high?

I say a big part was commodity speculation as speculators got out equities and a global recession caused by the fall of housing values.

Just what the Dem congress which was having every meaningful piece of legislation vetoed managed to do to crash the world economy in the space of a year is a mystery but maybe you can answer.

Papa Frank said...

Still ignoring the 75% of Americans that want to drill I see. Still bowing at the feet of the Goracle. Just as you think that passing the stimulus bill will send a message so would starting to drill for our own oil and rejecting the lie of global warming. Only in the case of the "stimulus" bill the market has already spoken and has steadily gone down. The market does not like the bailout, the stimulus, or Obama in general. Record drops the day after he was elected AND the day after he took office.

Papa Frank said...

I also believe that speculators added significantly to the problem as well. In this part you are partially correct.

Ducky's here said...

Remember Papa, we got out of the great Depression with a government jobs and capital spending program.


It was called World War II.

Now, I bet we can have the same effect without a world war, as much as the war would excite neocons.

Ducky's here said...

Still ignoring the 75% of Americans that want to drill I see.

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I don't give a damn what the WANT to do. I want to do what is best.

Now the oil companies drill and they sell, take that expense and sell into a down market?

Are you certain? My guess is that the production starts when prices are up. It's not even a short term solution.

We use to much petroleum for drilling to get us out of the import bind.

Papa Frank said...

"I don't give a damn what the WANT to do. I want to do what is best."

And that is the EXACT reason that we will all stay conservatives and never become elitist liberals. We believe that democracy is by the people and for the people. We don't believe in the "ruling" class and our leaders CHOOSING FOR US instead of representing us. Instead YOU wish to shove your agenda down the throats of everyone no matter what the will of the people is.

Yehudi said...

Yeah, PF! Throw the hook...he's on the ropes! You almost got him!

Ducky, I resent what you said regarding Israeli welfare checks. Do you realize that though Israel benefits from billions from the US each year, they are among the only countries on earth that pays the US back? They carry nearly zero debt to us. Perhaps if even a small percentage of the nations around the world that have benefited from billions of our money would pay it back, we wouldn't have had to pass a nearly $1,000,000,000,000 stimulus bill.

Ducky's here said...

Yehudi, they just reschedule the debt and repay nothing. Don't start with that Nuttyyahoo line.

Assuming that the American people are stupid is also insulting. Likud has never paid back a penny. You're the world's biggest welfare queens and you know it.

The Merry Widow said...

ducky is a communist/socialist(who's family fled the Ukraine) and he is DYING to shove us all under it.
And woe unto those who call him on it.

tmw

FJ said...

If every single mortgage that was issued as a result of the CRA had defaulted, that figure would have been trivial.

If the price of houses in America didn't more than double as a result of the added artifical housing demand, you would have been right... but now the CRA owns the doubling of housing prices nationwide from the mid-nineties to present. So, after housing values fall 50%, then AND ONLY THEN, will your statement be true, ducky.

FJ said...

We use to much petroleum for drilling to get us out of the import bind.

That's kind of like saying that as it is, chickens don't lay enough eggs for us to eat omelettes, and that hatching a few more chickens wouldn't improve the situation. It's just stupid and wrong. Within a few years we'd have x2 or x3 the domestic oil production capacity. All the government needs to do is get out of the way.

FJ said...

btw - What "other" short term solution are you proposing? Nuclear? Wind power? Electric cars? They're even farther off in the future than undrilled oil wells.

Brooke said...

Fairy dust?

Chuck said...

The real issue here is unnecessary government spending (think the stimulus bill). We need to cancel the stimulus bill and take a chainsaw to the federal budget. We can then cut taxes (Ducky, is it ok with you if we actually get to keep some of our money?). Then we can spend the money and the people that we are "spreading the wealth" to can go out and get a j-o-b. This is economic stimulus the old fashioned way.

Z said...

That's okay, Ducky...the rightwing gives you a headache? The leftwingers make me puke.

You win

Always On Watch said...

Let's review just how much Duck cares about dissenting fellow citizens. The following is one of Duck's recent comments at my site:

...Look, here's how it's going down. We are going to take your health insurance, job, house, unemployment benefits and put you and your family out on the curb with a begging bowl and ask you how you like your blue eyed boy, the free market now.

There is no hope for conservatives and the problems they bring on themselves should not be mitigated. You can't learn any other way....


So, when Duck spouts off about how wonderful his version of Utopia will be, what he wants most is to get rid of us conservatives. We're standing in his way!

Actually, I'm grateful for that particular comment of Duck's. The mask slipped.

When Rahm Emanuel spouts off as to how much the present crisis will be good for America, what's the UNDERLYING meaning? I submit that it's the same as Duck's -- enslavement.

Ducky's here said...

Absolutely, AOW. If we continue on the right wing path that's what is going down.

There is just so far you can go trying to save people from themselves. They see the situation they are in and try to compound it.

What Emanuel is saying is that frakin' ST. Ronnie Raygun is STONE COLD DEAD.

Newton Gingrich and the Contract On America is STONE COLD DEAD.

Laissez-faire capitalism and Libertarianism are to be put on the ash heap of history along with Stalinism.

He is saying that the far right is going to be left behind and ignored while we do the best we can to rebuild because THEY HAVE NOTHING TO OFFER.

We went through years of you railing about gay marriage, indiscriminately bombing Muslims, giving Israel carte blanche, looting the treasury and handing the economy over to robber barons. If you don't do the sensible thing and get out of the way you deserve the logical consequences of your actions. That's all, it's much more logic than any desire to bring grief.

FJ said...

We've got plenty to offer, mr. ducky, but the jackass you're on refuses to drink. Your party's on a mission to join hands and sink the world in a Jim Jone's style mutual kumbaya economic suicide pact.

But once the corpses start dropping, you're dupes'll all be begging to bring us back... because we're all thats left.

The Hermit said...

Well, if things get much worse up here, it won't matter why or who did what or didn't do what. Three plants in the town where I work have shut down. People who had good jobs and lived a good life are working at Wendy's and McDonalds. Now tax time comes and people don't have money to pay the taxes so they have to worry that they'll get a tax lien put on their property, and be sold out. Once it gets to that point, it just doesn't matter anymore about how we got here. People are just getting by day to day. It seems to me that people who had nothing to do with this are paying for it. The people who caused it, politicians or bankers or brokers or whoever, don't seem to be doing too badly.

Always On Watch said...

Duck,
If you don't do the sensible thing and get out of the way you deserve the logical consequences of your actions.

So, no dissenting allowed?

I wouldn't say that I am "in the way."

PS: I've never once railed about homosexuals -- in public or in private.

cube said...

Surely the weekend the Obamas took vacationing could've been used as a chance for the pols to read the boondoggle bill, right. No, it had to be voted on, without prior reading, on the Friday before the 3day vacation.

This is an outrage that is being downplayed to the level of move along, nothing here to see.